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Join the discussion with Rich, Janel, Patricia Robinett, and Marilyn MIlos

L. Janel Martin wrote:

Do you know of studies and stats on the incidence of violence against women comparing circ’d and uncirc’d men? Domestic violence, men in prison, etc?

Marilyn answered:
No, Janel, as far as I know, those studies have never been done. It’s about time, doncha think?!

Love, Marilyn

Janel wrote to Marilyn, Rich, and Patricia Robinett:
So, how can we say we are more violent because of circ if there’s no “proof”. And humans apparently have been brutal forever … I can’t help but think the circ actually docilates men from being the fierce warriors they were. Definitely, as men have become civilized over time, uncir’d men are kinder maybe as Patricia said on the air and it’s still true that circ’ing has added a whole new dimension to the brain of the modern man.


Here’s my take: MGM teaches fear and rage. The rage is suppressed. The fear causes passivity and disempowerment in the face of “authority”thus promoting mass social organization (i.e. warmaking). The rage can come to the surface either at the direction of authorities (torture etc) or in the absence of authority figures (i.e. when with friends and family). Sexual frustration, domestic difficulties and the link between sex and violence makes lovers especially vulnerable.

Marilyn Milos:

Hi Janel,

Karl Menninger said, “What we do to children, they will do to society.” It’s the infliction of a primal wound that affects the male throughout life. And, of course, not all circumcised males are violent, but every circumcised male is affected by his circumcision, whether he knows it or not. Sometimes, as Michel Odent has spoken about at a couple of my symposia, when excruciating pain is inflicted without the victim being able to fight or flee, the fight or flight hormones, without an outlet for expression, become destructive to the victim’s own body. This is the genesis of “learned helplessness.”

After Obama was elected, one Black, circumcised man said to me, “Obama must be intact. Look at his kind, gentle nature, his easy smile, his mellow demeanor. He’s too relaxed a man to have been circumcised.” There is a difference, too, with intact boys, who don’t have the edge their circumcised brothers have. Now, I know there are other reasons for males to act out or be aggressive. Look at non-circumcising Germany; yet, we know the needs of German babies was not met. Infants were kept separate, by themselves, to cry it out… Alice Miller, of course, talks about the horrific ways in which German babies and children were raised and how it adversely affected them, how easily they became soldiers who followed orders.

According to James DeMeo and James Prescott, humans haven’t always been violent. The earliest cave drawings showed peaceful societies, breastfeeding mothers, man and animal living together without harm. DeMeo claims that it was the desertification in sub-Saharan Africa that introduced hunger and then the fighting began. First, the fight was against the animals and then it was man against man. Perhaps we’ll never really know what happened at the dawn of civilization, but we do know that when we birth babies peacefully and answer the needs of our children, they will thrive not just survive, and, isn’t that our work, i.e., to work toward making the planet a peaceful place again by how we bring our children into the world? For, as Gandhi said, “If we are ever to have real peace, we must begin with the children.”

With love and appreciation, Marilyn


hmm… that’s interesting, janel.
i think that circumcision could go either way…
either to ‘cow’ the person or to enrage her/him
like an angry bull. 🙂

i personally do not think that humans — men —
are created angry, violent, or withdrawn… i think
the ‘personality’ is made — perhaps a carryover
from another lifetime, but you can always see
good ‘reasons’ why people are the way they are
from just this lifetime… .

i think this is an important discussion.

not all people will respond in the same way to ‘fear’
(lack of love). but still, ‘fear’ (tension) will reign
in that person’s life, rather than ‘love’ (ease)
when one is overpowered… when a person feels
powerless, they are as far from their true nature
as it is possible for them to get.

i think of the causes of trauma as anything that
overpowers another… circumcision, sexual abuse,
the birth process itself, rape, physical violence,
mental oppression, and so on. people hold the
‘less than love’ in their bodies and are chronically

from my humble observation, it appears that
there are three primary modes that traumatized
people will enter. they are all coping strategies for
protecting oneself from abusive ‘authority figures’:

1) acquiesce to authority (withdraw, hide)
2) rail against authority (attack)
3) BECOME the authority (join them)

no one who has been abused really trusts authority.
they all see authority as dangerous.

a psychologist i know here in town has done a study…
he says only 5% of the population is ‘violence-prone’
or ‘warmongers’… i would call ‘violence-proneness’
or ‘warmongering’, symptoms of sociopathy.

circumcision is a violent act.
it teaches violence.
it teaches people to circumcise.
a circumcising culture is a violent culture.

people pass the violence on that was done to them.
or they bury their heads in the sand…
or they fight for the rights of children.

thank you all for fighting for children’s rights.

love, patricia

What do you think?

November 30, 2009 – Patricia Robinett

Patricia Robinett is the author of two books: “Knowledge: The Essence of World Scriptures” and “The Rape of Innocence: Female Genital Mutilation and Circumcision in the USA”. In her work as Clinical Hypnotherapist, she de-hypnotizes people from the trance induced by trauma.

Patricia stated the EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques) is good resource for healing trauma from circumcision and other traumas. The website for EFT is EFT is a technique for self-care and for helping others. It is so simple when you first look at it, you won’t believe it. Please believe it. EFT is profound technique for healing anything and everything in your life. At you can download the manual for free.

Wendy McCarty, PhD, pioneer in birth trauma healing and co-founder of the BEBA Clinic, has integrated EFT in her modality. Her site is

You can find out more about Robinett’s book at

November 23, 2009 – Barbara Harper, RN

Waterbirth International and author of “Gentle Birth Choices”.

Barbara’s expertise is in waterbirth and gentle, undisturbed birth is widely sought in all areas of the globe. She has lectured in 43 countries, including many medical schools, nursing schools, midwifery programs and university women’s studies departments. Barbara has been interviewed by hundreds of newspapers and magazines and has appeared on dozens of radio and TV shows to talk about her work with waterbirth and gentle birth.

November 15, 2009 – Star Newland

Star Newland from Hawaii, is a Dolphin Researcher and Founder of the Domestic Harmony Initiative. This is the tenth anniversary of Star’s project, The Domestic Harmony Initiative and November is Domestic Harmony Month in Hawaii. Star shared that project, and how it connects to work with dolphins, the program for women to give birth in water with dolphins, and her “pod” project of community living.

Read about The Domestic Harmony Initiative, her work with dolphins in birth and trauma healing at

Star and I (Janel), co-wrote the Safe Baby Resolution that was introduced into the Hawaii in 2007 and this is on

November 9, 2009 – J. Steven Svoboda, JD

Mr. Svoboda is founder and Executive Director of Attorneys for the Rights of the Child (ARC), a federally and state-certified non-profit corporation Steven founded in early 1997.

In July and August 2001, Svoboda traveled to Geneva on behalf of ARC to consult with the United Nations’ Sub-Commission for the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights, making oral and written submissions, the latter of which became part of the official UN record and the first document ever accepted by the UN focusing on male circumcision.

Details of Mr. Svoboda’s extensive work in safeguarding children’s bodily integrity is at

October 26, 2009 – Janel and Rich

October 26
Stuart Fischbein, MD
Obstetric physician from California who is a strong advocate for patient’s rights to informed consent and refusal. He is a long-time supporter of midwifery care and creating partnerships with midwives. He is currently one of the few obstetricians to speak publicly and to stand up against his own professional organization on behalf of women’s rights to true informed consent and choice. Recently, for allowing patients the dignity of true informed consent in his community he and his midwives are being threatened with disciplinary action.

Dr. Fischbein, obstetrician from northern Los Angeles area, had to cancel and Rich and I winged it. I shared some recent research that showed that mother’s breast milk has stem cells in it, meaning that the mother’s body CONTINUES TO BUILD the BABY’S BODY for months or years. I shared my personal experience of having a profound connection to my son who is in Afghanistan where 16 American soldiers had died that day. Our conversation zig zagged around the topic of the impact of obstetric interventions on the human being and on society. Rich’s paper, Munchausen Obstetrics, link at top of page here, has many, many resources on this topic.

At t the end of the hour, with only minutes left, we had a caller who doubted what we were saying. She said she is a scholar and doesn’t believe the anecdotal stories. I gave her a resource, Dr. William Emerson’s site,, but she said that’s just one person. Both he and David Chamberlain, PhD are coming out with new books very soon. Dr. Chamberlain is the co-founder of the Association for Pre and Perinatal Psychology and Health,, founded in the mid eighties. Members are international and include physicians, nurses, psychologists, music and craniosacral therapists, and many, many others all who have done research in the area of the primal period of life. The research is there and it has been for years. Here’s one from the seventies,

Aside from the research there is just plain logic … birth has to matter. Once one embraces how fully present we are in the womb (and before) and at birth one has to stop what they are doing to human babies. Meanwhile, DENIAL permeates every aspect of birth and consideration for the full sentience of the human baby. Why? Because to acknowledge that we are fully present at birth, one has to deal with their own birth, their primal brain imprinting, and how it has created who they are today. And, one has to deal with their own decisions or their own victimization as a woman birthing her children. THIS IS the biggest obstacle. I would bet that our caller had a cesarean, chosen or not, or something profound that happened to her giving birth. Our society doesn’t acknowledge it so it doesn’t provide or research options to support healing, so people deny it. Babies can’t be fully aware. It can’t matter what we do to them in the first moments, hours, and days of their life because then we have to deal with what we did to so many babies.

I found my old site cached on google and I am posting links to a couple of pages here. One is a newspaper article about my work in the Peoria Journal Star in October 2003.

The Baby Whisperer

The other is the testimony of the same mother featured in the article about her experience of doing therapy with her baby and me. He was born at home but had to have multiple heart surgeries in his first two weeks. A psychology professor at the local community college wrote a seething “letter to the editor” about my work. This and my response are also on this page and it includes many, many references.

A Mother’s Story

With all due respect to our caller, I realized how tired of I am of having to be the one “to prove” with science my premise that we can be kinder, we can honor the mother and baby (soul) being born. The truth is that obstetric medicine isn’t and hasn’t been scientific based. NEVER were the drugs ever used shown to be safe prior to using on NEWBORNS. Humans, baby humans, are NON-informed, NON-consenting subjects in one long, horrid research project. Obstetric medicine is the place of manufacturing of human deficits and dysfunctions, namely the ones that create broken human connections as well as drug addiction and propensity for violence, for being a culture of people with little respect for the boundaries of others.

So, let me say, “NO, YOU prove that what is being in done in modern medicalized birth for sixty decades is NOT damaging.” My guts, my heart, my logic and science tells me is it profoundly damaging.

In November of 2006 a month after my son first deployed to Iraq I began writing on a blog and I wrote 600 pages between November and May. It was my therapy as I wrote about birth, war, obstetrics and mother-child attachment. That blog is It is full, full, full of articles with research to back our discussion.

October 19, 2009 – Gloria LeMay

Gloria is from Vancouver, B.C., Canada and is a midwife and Intactivist. We continue talking about the “cutting” of intimacy during birth and early infancy. Gloria work involves:

*holistic education for midwives and doulas

*keeping baby boys intact



*health and wellness

Gloria is contributing editor of Midwifery Today Magazine. She is an Advisory Board member of the International Cesarean Awareness Network (ICAN). Gloria is a keynote speaker at childbirth conferences and has traveled throughout N. America teaching midwifery.

September 28, 2009 – Stephanie Dawn

September 28
Stephanie Dawn
Stephanie Dawn, ASLP is a licensed therapist and healer with a private practice in Santa Monica, California. She is the founder of Sacred Birth Work, conscious childbirth preparation education including classes, workshops and private sessions in person and via telephone, to support pregnant women and men to vision the birth of their dreams. Her work takes into account the whole person, emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual and that includes the baby! She is the author of The Sacred Birth Workbook and the mother of Jasper and Zephyr, born at home and in a hospital, respectively, with midwives and doulas. Learn more by going to

Stephanie Dawn shared her power insights and work in helping parents to prepare for SACRED BIRTH … an experience that is the result of the parents individually clearing their own issues and creating together, envisioning together the birth of the One coming into their lives.

Information from the show:

New book on 911.


Yukio Hatoyama is Japan’s new leader. He officially took office last Wednesday, and he is already threatening to split with the United States.

Hatoyama blames America for the global economic crisis and says that the U.S. is responsible for the destruction of human dignity.” He campaigned on protecting traditional Japanese economic activities and reducing U.S.-led globalization. ics

70% of Japanese births are attended by midwifes, often in dedicated birth houses or in private homes. Japan’s cesarean rate has doubled in the last 18 years from 11% to now about 21%. That means that less than 10% of births in Japan are non-surgical, vaginal births in the hospital. Compare that to about 60% in the US. In the US it’s said to be less than 6% of all births are home or birth centers while 95% of births are in the hospital. Over 30% of those births in the US are surgical birth. In the US it’s over 30% and as much as 80% in some hospitals.

The World Health Organization recommends no more than a 10% cesarean rate in developed countries, based upon research indicating more harm than good to both mothers and babies when the cesarean rate tops 15%.

A recent study in Birth 2006 showed that looked at national linked birth and infant death data for the 1998-2001 birth cohorts (5,762,037 live births and 11,897 infant deaths) and they were analyzed to assess the risk of infant and neonatal mortality for women with no indicated risk by method of delivery and cause of death. RESULTS: Neonatal mortality rates were higher among infants delivered by cesarean section (1.77 per 1,000 live births) than for those delivered vaginally (0.62).

Basically they found that c-section triples the rate of newborn death, even for healthy, low-risk moms and healthy babies.

Crime in Japan is lower than in many other first world countries but child abuse, a known precursor to crime and incarceration is on the rise in Japan. Machiko Ayukyo, is a lawyer who handles child abuse cases and is a director of the Center for Child Abuse Prevention says this year, the Ministry of Health and Welfare commissioned its first child abuse survey. THAT is amazing. HOW LONG have we had the war on child abuse in this country? The ministry also plans to start specialized training for social workers in child abuse, to provide increased psychological support for abused children and to distribute a video to publicize the problem.

September 21 – Guest Lynn Reed

September 21
Lynn Reed
Trust Birth Augusta. Jewish mother shares her story of coming to new awareness of circumcision. She talks about the numerous cuts made to human during the primal period of life: circumcision, cord cutting, cesarean surgical cut, episiotomy .., all of which “cut us off” from our mothers and our foundation for empathy and intimacy.

This is a must-listen-to show. Lynn lays it down so we can all get a better understanding of the Jewish traditions and how her struggle over circumcision led to some of the new ways for Jewish familes.

Check out

The Tenants of the Trust Birth Initiative

The decisions that women make concerning their birth should be based on the truth rather
than fears and misconceptions.

Every woman deserves the right to hear the truth about birth.

Women know how to give birth. They may not realize that they do, but they do.
Birth is a natural function of life.

Our bodies were designed to give birth just as they were designed to conceive and grow a
baby. Our bodies know how to finish what they began.

Birth should not be a time in a woman’s life when she has to FIGHT for anything.

Birth should not be a battlefield.

Birth is not normally a medical event and rarely needs any medical interference.

Birth belongs to women and not to their birth attendant.

We don’t want to promote any birth attendant as being more essential to the process than
the woman giving birth.

We don’t want to promote any place as being safer for birth than the woman’s home.

We don’t lie to women about what may or may not happen if they follow a formula or a plan.

If supporting a woman’s choices is really our goal then we have to tell her the truth about the
limitation of her choices once she enters a hospital.

We tell the truth: Interference with birth starts the minute she leaves her home and the minute
she is in the hospital she is no longer in charge.

Hospitals offer no measure of safety for birth for the average woman and, in fact, increase the
chances of many potential complications.

The Trust Birth Initiative is not ANTI-hospital as much as we are pro-TRUTH.

Interfering with birth increases risks regardless of where the birth takes place.

Women and their babies are being abused in the name of “safety.”

There are too many surgical births, too many epidurals, too many episiotomies, too many
inductions, too much monitoring and managing.

Women are being scared and bullied and manipulated.

Women are being robbed experience of giving birth; babies are being robbed of a peaceful
environment in which to be born.

This is what we believe….

Monday, September 14 – Guest Marilyn Milos

September 14

Our guest was Marilyn Milos, RN.

In 1985, Marilyn founded and is the director of the National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers (NOCIRC) and she is the organizer of the International Symposia on Circumcision, Genital Integrity, and Human Rights (there have been ten symposia, she is working on the 11th now). She is co-editor of six symposia books and is editing the seventh book now.

NO CIRC is the first organization in the US to address the circumcision issue shares her experience of starting NO CIRC and her most current concern: ” the agenda by white North Americans to push circumcision in Africa to prevent AIDS, a strategy that is sure to fail–but how many will suffer and/or die in the meantime–not from AIDS but from circumcision?”